Interview: Academy FM
Monday 22 November 2021
TF
Tony Freudmann
0:00
Thank you for the
opportunity to explain where we are and what's going on with the airport.
AF
Academy FM
0:03
Well Tony, it's a
pleasure to have you here. Now, Tony, can you tell us a little bit about
RiverOak and what the company actually does?
TF
Tony Freudmann
0:12
Well, RiverOak is what
we call in the, in the jargon, a SPV, a single purpose vehicle. In other words,
it's a company which was set up to acquire and develop Manston Airport. It's a
company with wealthy backers who've supported us so far. And as you know, we've
spent roughly 40 million pounds on the project so far, with more to come. So it
is a single purpose vehicle. It's a bit like the company that owns Heathrow,
you know, all airports are owned by single purpose vehicles. That's who we are.
And of course the investors are committed to the project. They don't invest
their money lightly these are large sums of money. And you know, you, you, you
carry out very robust and thorough forecasts before you could decide to commit
your money. So for anyone who thinks that this is a huge gamble, and people
don't know what they're doing well it's really not the case.
Editor's Note: What isn't asked nor elucidated is the true nature of the several companies that were formed during 2017. Nor indeed where the beneficial ownership resides.
In the middle of this spider web is Riveroak Strategic Partners Ltd where in 2019 80% of the shares were owned by HLX Nominees registered in the Tax Haven of the British Virgin Islands
AF
Academy FM
1:14
And in 2018, RiverOak
submitted a Development Consent Order, a DCO, to reopen and develop the airport
into a freight facility. Why did you choose Manston airport?
TF
Tony Freudmann
1:27
Well, the truth is
there isn't anywhere else. We and our investors wanted an airport which would
be a major freight airport with some passenger traffic. For that you need a
runway, a long runway of nearly 3000 metres. There isn't another one anywhere
in the South East of England and we identified that there was a shortage of
capacity in the south east of England. So Manston was perfect. And the final
point is, there is a planning policy which is still a planning policy which is
called MBU, Make Best Use and what that means is rather than digging up greenfield
sites and putting down new runways, if there's a runway there, you should use
it. And that's why we chose Manston.
Editor's note: Both Lakenheath and Mildenhall are better geographically. Both are surplus to requirements for the RAF and USAF yet Tony wants to create a Cargo Hub in East Kent 50 miles from the M25. BTW Manston is 9029 feet / 2752 metres. To some that may seem petty but not if you are trying to take off with a fully laden cargo plane.
AF
Academy FM
2:10
Right. And you
submitted as I said, the Development Consent Order. What then happened?
TF
Tony Freudmann
2:16
Well, we were accepted
as a Nationally Significant Infrastructure Project as it's called you. You have
to be accepted is that before you can go forward to examination. There was six
months of examination, public examination for the first six months of 2019. And
the DCO process is strictly timetabled, the inspectors then completed their
examination in July 2019. They submitted the report within three months. That's
how it goes, to the Secretary of State October 2019. And the Secretary of State
is supposed to deliver his decision within three months so it should have been
January 2020. Well, he didn't do it. We didn't get the decision until July
2020. And there was then a judicial review against the decision. And the
Secretary of State conceded that he hadn't explained the reasons for his
decision. in enough detail. So it was it was taken back for the reasons to be
rewritten. And that's where we stand currently. So we are actually two years
behind schedule now.
Editor's note: "Well, we were accepted as a Nationally Significant Infrastructure Project as it's called you. You have to be accepted is that before you can go forward to examination." Now to most people that may sound logical however what you may not realise is that to be accepted for examination RO had to convince the planning inspectorate that Manston was capable of achieving 10000 Cargo air transport movements (CATMs) in a 12 month period. Dr. Sally Dixon managed that by the simple expedient of reducing the cargo in each movement to 20 tonnes. When Manston was operative each load arriving averaged 95tonnes and each aircraft left empty.
Editor's note 2: Tony forgot to mention that after 6 months of examining his plan the planning inspectorate declared there was no NEED for Manston. I wonder why?
EXA: Given all the above evidence, the ExA concludes that the levels of freight that the Proposed Development could expect to handle are modest and could be catered for at existing airports (Heathrow, Stansted, EMA, and others if the demand existed). The ExA considers that Manston appears to offer no obvious advantages to outweigh the strong competition that such airports offer. The ExA therefore concludes that the Applicant has failed to demonstrate sufficient need for the Proposed Development, additional to (or different from) the need which is met by the provision of existing airports.
AF
Academy FM
3:28
Right. And as Manston
Airport, as I said, has been in existence since 1916. Obviously you know, you
have to apply for planning permission, new various licences etcetera, but I was
surprised that has actually taken so long.
TF
Tony Freudmann
3:44
We're very surprised.
I mean, we're not the only ones who are having the same problems. You know,
people will be following the London Resort project which used to be the
Paramount Studios project, that's got bogged down in bureaucracy and red tape,
the Lower Thames crossing the same thing. It's a problem with major
infrastructure projects in this country. We are impatient with the DfT. We
think it's taken far too long. And the irony is, we've got investors who want
to invest, who want to create jobs, who want to create a successful airport and
we're on hold while we await the decision.
AF
Academy FM
4:21
Yes. And last year, we
saw because of a lockdown that the post Brexit lorry Park was introduced. Was
this the government coming to RiverOak saying, we want to use your land for a
lorry park or did you have any saying in it?
TF
Tony Freudmann
4:36
Well, we could have
refused I suppose. But what happened was that when we purchased the airport,
the Department for Transport already had a short-term lease on the airport. So
they came to us when we bought it and said, will you extend our time until July
of 2019 because we think we may need it because of problems post-Brexit. And we
agreed to that we thought, well, if we don't agree to it, and there are
problems and of course, many of your listeners will remember the problems that
occurred last Christmas and beyond, if we hadn't agreed to it, there would
probably been gridlock on Kent roads everywhere. At one point there were 4000
lorries parked on the airport, you know, unbelievable. So that was why we agreed
to it, but they left in July and since then, we've had no further requests from
the DfT.
Editor's note: a nice piece of "sleight of hand", the truth is the Department of Transport had a contractual obligation with the previous owners of Manston, Stone Hill Park, and not only that when the DfT took over the runway they paid Stone Hill Park for the privilege. Must of been really annoying. Also not mentioned is RSP being paid £8.5M for holding up their plans. You know the ones that were quashed in February 2021 when the JR succeeded. Nice money for doing naff all.
AF
Academy FM
3:34
But there are rumours
certainly flying around Thanet at the moment that the government may be
considering Manston Airport to house perhaps immigrants or maybe having an
immigration centre. Is there any truth in the rumour as well?
TF
Tony Freudmann
5:31
Well, like everyone
else, we hear things and we're aware of how urgent the situation has become.
Here you have, Manston a 800 acre site which is secure, it's fenced and so on.
I would not be surprised if it wasn't one of the places that people would be looking
at you know, because they seem to be looking at everywhere and somewhere that's
so close to the Channel, it would be a logical place. That would be a tragedy
and as long as the airport remains unused, the temptation for government to
look at the airport will be there.
Academy FM
6:23
Yes, yes. But that was
not that would be a long-term project wouldn't it? It wouldn't be something
like the lorry park?
TF
Tony Freudmann
6:29
Well, exactly. You
know, I mean, the problem with the migrant thing is who knows, you know, you
look at migrant camps in other parts of the world, some of them have been there
for 20 years. So absolutely.
AF
Academy FM
6:39
Yes, yes. And an
independent assessor appointed by the Secretary of State, Grant Shapps last
month concluded that the case for a freight hub was not proven. Was this a
surprise to you?
TF
Tony Freudmann
6:52
It was it was a total
surprise at a number of levels. I need to take a little bit of time to explain
this. First of all, we thought that the assessor appointed by the Secretary of
State was going to be there to explain the reasons for the Secretary of State's
decision, his consent in July of, in July 2020, but he didn't. And what they
did was they carried out a demand study. Now we say that is wrong in law.
Because this doesn't require a demand study. I know this gets a bit
complicated, but there was a point at which we were asking the Secretary of
State for a compulsory purchase order of the Manston. If you're asking for
compulsory purchase the test is a higher test, the need test. We don't need a
compulsory purchase order we own the airport, we bought it we paid for it. So
the need test, as it's called, is actually the balance of public interest. In
other words, what is the what are the pluses on what are the minuses? So to
carry out a demand study, we disagree with the conclusions anyway, it just
makes no sense. I mean, for you, those of your listeners who are familiar with
the London Resort, no one's done a demand study on the London Resort. The, the promoters
of that project either own the land or have the options over it so it's just a
public interest test, which is what we say we satisfy and but by the way, we
also say that the Arup report is fundamentally flawed, they fail to understand
the changes that have taken place in the market because of Brexit and because
of COVID in the changes with e-commerce and Amazon and all the rest of it. So
you know, we say it is a really badly flawed report and reflects very bad on
the Arup organisation.
Editors Note: what the assessor said was quite succinct, they certainly weren't their to provide excuses for the rather controversial decision by Stephenson to overturn the ExA's decision to turn down the DCO.
AF
Academy FM
8:53
Yes, yes. And the
Secretary of State asked a RiverOak and Interested Parties for their comments
by the 19th of November, has RiverOak produced and submitted evidence to prove
that there is a need for a freight service at Manston Airport?
TF
Tony Freudmann
9:08
Well, the 19th of
November date was subsequently extended to the third of December because the
original Arup report which they released, had mistakes in it. There was a
chapter missing. There were footnotes that were redacted. They had to correct
the mistakes which meant that they had to start the consultation clock all over
again. So it's now 'til the third of December. We will be putting in a major
response to it on the third of December, maybe a few days before, and we'll be
publishing it so that everyone can see what we've said.
AF
Academy FM
9:45
Right. And when are
you then likely to get a response from the Secretary of State?
TF
Tony Freudmann
9:50
We don't know. We will
be pressing very hard for a timetable. The whole point about Development
Consent Orders is that they're meant to be strictly timetabled, and the
original parts of it were six months for the examination, three months for the
report, three months of the decision. We have no timetable at the moment. So
we'll be pressing very hard, very hard for a timetable.
AF
Academy FM
10:12
We're gonna play a
piece of music and we'll be coming back with to find out more about Manston
airport and the plans for Manston Airport.
TF
Tony Freudmann
10:24
Well, they're
ambitious plans, we've set them out in a, in a detailed master plan. It's
basically to create a very, very large cargo hangar slash warehouse with
supporting buildings, both airside and on the Northern Grass, as local people
will know it, and to build 19 or 20 parking stands in other words, places where
cargo planes can park. And this, by the way, is the answer to those people who
say, well, it never worked in the past so why will it work now? The problem
with Manston in the past was it only ever had two parking stands. And you've
heard me say this before, it's like having a beautiful hotel and complaining
that there are no guests because you've only got three bedrooms. And that was
the problem. So you have to spend money on that and we're projecting three or
400 million pounds for that level of development. The other good thing about
Manston is that it will be carbon neutral, because unlike other airports that
have legacy issues like diesel powered vehicles and inefficient buildings, we
will be able to have all electric, all hydrogen, all the buildings with solar
panels and meeting the highest environmental standards, which will be a major
plus for us. So building brand new with brand new equipment, brand new
everything, big advantage. It's easy to use that awful phrase, it means you're
future proofing the airport from day one.
Editor's note: Manston never made a profit simply because geographically it is in the wrong place. Talk to people who worked there and they will tell you it took 2-3 days to unload the aircraft but as they only had an average of 2 aircraft a week that was never a problem. You have to remember Tony Freudmann ran the airport from 1999-2005. So he never noticed it had 2 stands, that is extremely remiss of him
AF
Academy FM
11:56
Yes, yes. And the land
surrounding the airport, will that be used for commercial or residential
development?.
TF
Tony Freudmann
12:03
No, our land will only
be used for aviation related so it will be for, primarily for offices, hangars,
workshops to support aviation services, catering for aviation, that kind of
thing. And I know you mentioned to me off air, we will also for the record, bring
back TG Aviation, the flying school. Yes, they've been away and they want to
come back and that will be one of the first things we do
AF
Academy FM
12:34
And at the moment
we're seeing that Thanet Parkway Station is being constructed. Is that going to
have a direct link to the airport?
TF
Tony Freudmann
12:45
No, it's not, it's not
going to have a physical link to the airport. You know we, we wish the project
well but to be perfectly honest with you the county council didn't liaise with
us at all over the design and construction of Parkway Station. So we don't know
what it will do for us. As far as we're concerned, we'll be looking at Ramsgate
Station for people coming to Manston by rail and we'll be running an electrical
hydrogen powered bus, a shuttle bus, to and from the station. And Ramsgate
Station has facilities for travellers to the Parkway Station won't have. The
other beauty for us of Ramsgate Station is that it has the potential to become
a handling hub for rail freight, there is land behind the station which can be
developed. Ramsgate Station is on the, an arm of the HS1 line and you can you
can get with overnight rail journeys from Ramsgate up to Willesden in northwest
London in 45 minutes. So, you know, all those things are big pluses for us.
Editor's note: Remember this is the 1st time in 7 years talk about using Ramsgate station has been mooted. 1. "The other beauty for us of Ramsgate Station is that it has the potential to become a handling hub for rail freight, there is land behind the station which can be developed."
So what land is that RSP surely not Warre Recreation ground which looks like the only undeveloped site. Then there is the small matter of Newington road with a Fire Station and two schools.
AF
Academy FM
13:55
Yes, yes, definitely.
And what will the airport do for the local economy?
TF
Tony Freudmann
14:00
Well, it will it will
create jobs basically, you know it will create jobs, it will give opportunities
to youngsters who often have to leave the area when they leave school because
there are no jobs for them locally. We think it will transform the local
economy down here. We've, we've recently been working with Ramsgate Football
Club, we helped on a small project, school dinners at half term, and supported
that to some extent and it was, a you know, we knew but it was an eye opener to
us as to the levels of deprivation: youngsters coming from homes where there's
no work, parents who can't find work. And these are all human resources that
are available for us to use, use you know and the beauty of airports is it has
a range of employed employment, you know, from the you know, the firefighters
right down to the security guy who checks she was the gate, you know, so, all
of those things, umm, we can we can contribute we're and again, you know, we've
had a lot of criticism about the projections. What I suggest, people who are
sceptical about this is, they look at the number of jobs there are at similar
airports East Midlands Airport is a good comparative Well there are several
jobs. But the other thing with airports, and Stansted do this, is you have to
train people, you have to train school leavers. You're offering them, them,
them a career path which doesn't exist otherwise. We've started that process as
well, because it's all essential to support an airport. You can't just say we
want 1000 people tomorrow, please turn up at the gate because they're not
there.
Editor's note: As has been said on a number of occasions by expert opinion there maybe construction jobs (even that is unlikely to benefit locals as RSP anticipates employment for up to 90miles away). These jobs however will be short term but the affects of a Cargo hub over Ramsgate will mean the loss of many Leisure jobs as Ramsgate becomes the sacrifice, that is assuming the Cargo Hub doesn't become a white elephant.
AF
Academy FM
15:51
No, no, no. And if
when you're given the go ahead to proceed with the development, how long will
it actually take to complete?
TF
Tony Freudmann
14:00
Well, it will take,
let's be optimistic, supposing we get a final go ahead next spring, we've then
got probably 9 to 12 months of detailed design work, survey work, off site road
planning, road improvements and that kind of thing. And what I also haven't
mentioned is putting in designs for the transport of goods from Ramsgate, from,
sorry, from Manston Airport to the port of Ramsgate and then up the River
Thames on hydrogen powered vessels, so all of that stuff will take some
planning. So we think in that scenario, if we get consent, spring, building
work will start perhaps the following January, 2023. And then, with a fair
wind, we could be open by the summer of 2024. That's the current projection.
AF
Academy FM
14:00
Wow! Yes, yes.
TF
Tony Freudmann
14:00
And I should also say
we, we estimate that the construction work will involve the employment of
between six and 800 people. So the jobs on the airport once construction starts
will be significant.
Editor's note: Presuming he means between 600-800 short term construction jobs from mostly large employers who will bring their own workforce.
AF
Academy FM
14:00
Yes, yes. And if
people want to find out more about the projects and more about Riveroak, is
there a website they can go
TF
Tony Freudmann
14:00
There is a website is
it's rsp.co.uk - it's all on there. We put a news feed on there, we publish
material there... There's an awful lot there if they want to find out more.
AF
Academy FM
17:32
What's it thank you
very much for coming in and speaking to us today. Good luck with your projects,
and we will keep updated.
TF
Tony Freudmann
17:40
Thank you. It's been a
pleasure. Thank you very much
AF
Academy FM
17:43
Thank you very much,
that's Tony Freeman, Director of RiverOak
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